Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

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Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby Maraschino Larry » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:09 pm

So as you all know my paper mache struts bent again in MD. These units are just not stout enough. Even I could not believe what I uncovered when I took it apart:

Image
:shock:

Yeah the weld broke and it bent like 45% and poked through the bag. Talk about doing a proper job of breaking.

I want to move forth with this project... we're damn close. They functioned well when they weren't bending. The lowness was on point... I just need to beef up. Randy suggested looking at industrial applications of shocks... I think he's on to something. Even if it's for a machine I don't care... if it's too stiff I'll just drill it out and use it for it's geometric function... what I really need it for anyways. I can do this because I am going to be adapting these to work:

Image
Min height: 2.9"
Max height: 8"
new 5" diameter slam bags. Specs

Truck guys swear by slam bags for non-shock/strut applications. They are extremely rigid laterally and only expand upwards... no swelling. I don't care about the ride... I just want to be able to ride low all the time.

I am going to make this my focus and put the TD swap on the back burner... I think I want to drive the car next summer. Time will tell... I have been all over the map on this. mkII is doing a good job of distracting my attention and eating my money right now.
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Postby Maraschino Larry » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:14 pm

oh yeah- remember this car?
Image

it looks like this now :(
Image
:lol:

gotta wash it and put it away properly.
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Postby wide_load » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:10 pm

Rick.. good to see you got ontop of the dirt asap. :P

I'll keep my eye's open for options for the coupe..
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Postby Dreamstate » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:55 am

holy crap

:shock:
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Postby professor science » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:39 am

holy crap. show tire pics... i want to see how destroyed they got :D
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Postby tripwalking » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:49 am

I had a response on my pda, but it wouldn't let me post it last night :x

there's got to be something else going on here... the shock was fine for it's intended application, so I don't see why what we're doing with it is causing such a problem. Unless we don't have the ride height dialed in correctly. I think the piston is coming too far out the top of the tube and there's not enough left inside to stabilize itself. Rick, do you need to raise it as high as you have when it bent? Maybe some top-out stops are necessary? The other thing we could try and find are longer stroke shocks.

Did we work on the 1/3 compression, 2/3 extension principal when we were modifying the shock?

I'm still not 100% convinced that we had the set-up perfectly, and therefore conclude that it's definitely the shock that's the problem.
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Postby tripwalking » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:50 am

and Rick, those bags aren't designed to take red paint brush stabs. That will void the warranty.
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Postby Maraschino Larry » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:18 am

it's the shock 100%... rememeber how easily they cut through and how much thinner they are than the once they're replacing? and yes where it bent there the shock was fully extended... but I NEVER drive with it more than 50/50 comp/extend... it's just when I raise the car to go over obstacles they cannot bear the load. like I said, we're real close 8)
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Postby tripwalking » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:04 pm

that's what I mean... the piston is coming too far out of the shock body. I think we cut too much off the shock - there needs to be more piston inside the tube at ride height which will give you more piston inside the tube at full extension.

There's just too much leverage on the piston when it's fully extended and it can't help but buckle. I feel bad for the little piston. If piston wasn't such a bad ass word, I'd feel worse. Piston. Piston. Say it with me. Piston. You just have to curl your lip.

I'd like to measure the good assembly and see what the fully extended dimension is and compare that to a stock shock.
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Postby Maraschino Larry » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:48 pm

problem is the length of the piston it what limits the drop- that's why we went through all of this in the first place. it can't be any longer. Those had a pretty large stroke too IIRC... we need a sort and stout shock.
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Postby tripwalking » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:05 pm

Can you measure the collapsed and extended lengths of the strut that's still intact, and compare that to a stock one?

piston
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Postby Maraschino Larry » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:58 pm

Yes. I'll rip the front end apart when I put it away properly and post up with I find!
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby tripwalking » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:34 pm

Image

Image


any shocking news?
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby Maraschino Larry » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:11 am

:)

I was looking at those snaps a few weeks ago... made me nostalgic :*(

So of course I am being distracted by my daily's needs as I need it to get to work and such... kind of tying up my funds at the moment. I'z gonna order those RE-5s when I can and then fun time happens. There is a bit of maintenance that the coupe needs to be driving again as well... we'll just have to wait and see what this year has in store. It's more of a time thing than anything. By the looks of things this year may be an even bigger year than last in terms of Silo so time will probably be scarce again. Priorities are a bitch!
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby Maraschino Larry » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:13 pm

Image
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby Maraschino Larry » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:23 pm

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4642959&page=4

I believe this guy cracked the case wide open on the 'shafts too long' issue. My only apprehension to going that route is they are gonna look pretty goofy sticking up like that, no?

My plans for the coupe over the winter is to order a raceland 'caddy kit' (fronts only) and depending on budget, either bolt them in there and drive for the interim, or do something similar to his build and have a final solution for my air ride debacle.
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby Dreamstate » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:15 pm

PS.. I have the bags to fit over the racelands.

hmm.. I could use some adapters......
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby Maraschino Larry » Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:11 pm

Cliff Notes Version- Front mounting arrangements are now complete. Planning for another mock up on the Jetta tomorrow.

Now I bring you my latest art work! :laugh:

Everything measured up and come out to: "42". Here is the airbag upper mount tacked together.
Image
Image

As it sits in relation to the MK4 Strut bearing mount/bushing. When assembled there will be a provided "gap" for the bushing.
Image

Here is the upper strut cap tacked and resting in place.
Image

Completely mocked together one more time before final weld.
Image

Here they are! They look like little chrome stove pipe hats! Image
Image

Upper Bag Mount in place!
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All resting in place.
Image

Looks like I should have everything complete dialed. At "Lock" and under hard camber the strut pitches 5 degrees. This equates to just under 3/8" of spacing need to clear the bag mount and the upper mount... all factored into the mount. It is also designed to allow for adjustablity should it need a little more or less!


Thoughts on this? I'm looking for: a) aesthetic opinions and b) thoughts on design, how you would improve on it, DW?

Depending on cost it might make sense just to buy this kit. I am planning on doing a kit based off of the racelands anyways and it solves the strut-too-long problem.
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby tripwalking » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:34 am

I checked that out... personally, I think it looks kind of what Randy said. But it is a solution...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4471613

Is there anything we can do to the spindle?
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby Mandeep D » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:20 am

I would guess that there's maybe an inch at most at the spindle end.
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby Maraschino Larry » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:12 pm

Less than that... see "Birch oilpan destroyer" thread lol Much more if you remove the axle.

What did Randy say?
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby tripwalking » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:46 pm

Luxurious wrote:Less than that... see "Birch oilpan destroyer" thread lol Much more if you remove the axle.

What did Randy say?


n/m, it was you... "goofy"

Being unfamiliar with your underhood arrangement, I have no idea how ridiculous this sounds... but what about raising the inner fender/strut mount area? Like, the whole thing?

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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby Dreamstate » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:25 pm

Luxurious wrote:Thoughts on this? I'm looking for: a) aesthetic opinions and b) thoughts on design, how you would improve on it, DW?


My offer: let's get together and discuss the possibilities. Keeping things simple with a raceland & bagover would be a)cheap b)reliable. We'll take measurements, and I'll 3d model a solution for the top. Wash hands, wipe on pants.
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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby diagnosis » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:39 pm

Are the 'top hat' sections simply to allow bag clearance within the original strut tower?

If so, could you not create a new tower from scratch that would be as strong, if not stronger than the original?
I am assuming ( I must have missed it in the thread you linked to), he will be using VR6 strut bearings/mounts?

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Re: Suspension Fiasco: Update, summation and future goals.

Postby diagnosis » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:42 pm

Luxurious wrote:http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4642959&page=4
I believe this guy cracked the case wide open on the 'shafts too long' issue. My only apprehension to going that route is they are gonna look pretty goofy sticking up like that, no?
.


Ok, got it, now I understand what he's doing. :)
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